Can You Play Jazz on a Selmer S80 Classical Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece?

Today, I will be reviewing three Selmer S80 classical tenor saxophone mouthpieces of different tip openings that I was able to borrow from a local music store.  My goal is to see how they perform for my style of saxophone playing.  To be fair, the Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpieces were designed for classical tenor saxophone playing so the whole premise for this review is not really fair to the S80 mouthpieces.  At the same time,  I know there are a fair share of high school students out there trying to play jazz on a Selmer S80 tenor sax mouthpiece so I thought this review might be informative for them.  Let’s give this review a shot and see how the Selmer S80 tenor sax mouthpieces play for me.

The last time I tried one of these Selmer S80 classical tenor sax mouthpieces was in college about forty years ago.  Although my memory is patchy on a lot of things these days, I still remember my response to trying that Selmer S80 C* tenor saxophone mouthpiece all those years ago, I didn’t like it at all!  As someone who was listening to Michael Brecker, Bob Berg and Bob Mintzer at the time, I remember thinking that the Selmer S80 saxophone mouthpiece didn’t have close to the power, brightness and projection I was looking for from a tenor saxophone mouthpiece.  In fact, to my young developing ears, the Selmer S80 sounded way too dark and dull for the sound I was looking for at the time.  Now, forty years later, I was curious to try these Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpieces again and see if my opinion of them has changed after forty years.

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

The Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpiece is widely known as a classical tenor saxophone mouthpiece.  It is described on the Selmer website as having a very warm grained, broad and full toned sound.  The three Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpieces I borrowed were a C*, an E and an F.   Here are how those tip openings measure out according to the Selmer website (these are pre-2012 S80 mouthpieces):

Selmer S80 C*= 1.90 mm (.075″)

Selmer S80 E= 2.10 mm (.083″)

Selmer S80 F= 2.30 mm (.091″)

If you were to measure from the tip of the mouthpiece to the break where the mouthpiece starts to bend away from the reed, this would be the facing curve length. Facing curve lengths are most commonly measured in half millimeters, so a standard tenor facing length of 50 would be 25mm.

The facing curve on these three Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpieces is listed as 24 mm which is a 48.  These three Selmer S80 mouthpieces were made before 2012. The Selmer S80 tenor mouthpieces made after 2012 have an even shorter facing curve length of 23 mm which is a 46 (for an excellent article on these Selmer S80 mouthpiece changes check out “A Selmer C* is a C* is a C* – or is it?” by David Kessler.)  Most of the tenor saxophone mouthpieces that I have reviewed here at Neffmusic have facing curve lengths of 47-54 with most mouthpiece facings curves averaging around a 50 length.

Here is a great informative quote about facing curves from the BSS (Boston Sax Shop) website:

“With a longer facing curve, the reed is more flexible because the fulcrum, or break, is moved back, giving you more leverage against the spring of the reed. As a result, a longer facing curve offers less overall resistance, more efficiency and easier sub-tone. However, there is a downside if you go too far. The mouthpiece begins to feel mushy, loses its crispness of articulation and altissimo suffers.

In comparison, a shorter facing curve is like moving the fulcrum up, presenting less leverage on the spring of the reed. This gives the mouthpiece more cooperative resistance, as it takes more force to seal the reed which makes altissimo easier, gives you more control of articulation and presents the feeling of ‘pushing against something’. However, shorter facings often suffer from harsh low notes and are hard to play loud.”

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

The three Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpieces were in relatively good condition although these three mouthpieces had been used as trial mouthpieces for students who wanted to try them at the local music store so there is some wear and tear on them.  All three mouthpieces sealed well with the Boston Sax Shop Silver Label 3 1/2 tenor saxophone reeds I used on them.  I used a different reed on each mouthpiece just to avoid issues that might occur by using the same reed on different facing curves.

The diameter and beak profile of the Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpieces is very close to the diameter and beak profile of a typical hard rubber tenor saxophone mouthpiece and the beak height felt very comfortable while playing.

All of my saxophone ligatures that fit comfortably on hard rubber Otto Link tenor saxophone mouthpieces fit on the Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpieces.  I chose to use the Sax Clinic SVC Tonus Mundi String Ligature that I reviewed last year for this review.

The Selmer S80 table, rails and tip rail looked even and well balanced.   The baffle looks to have a quick rollover baffle near the tip and then what I would describe as a concave low baffle floor that you can see clearly in the photo below.  This concave baffle floor is not common on jazz tenor saxophone mouthpieces. Most jazz saxophone mouthpieces with rollover baffles have a rollover baffle that starts high near the tip and gradually curves down to the chamber area of the mouthpiece.   As you can see below, the Selmer S80 mouthpiece has a concave curve that immediately curves low and then slides down as it travels through the chamber to the square exit into the round bore area.

The Selmer S80 tenor mouthpieces have straight sidewalls that travel from the tip of the mouthpiece to the square entrance to the round bore of the mouthpiece.  The square entrance isn’t really an entrance to the chamber area but seems to me to be more of a square exit from the chamber area into the bore of the mouthpiece. The roof of the chamber looks relatively thick to my eyes.

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

Before I even played the three Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpieces,  I had to wonder what effect that concave low baffle would have on the sound.  In general terms, I have described a regular baffle like a ski slope that speeds up the air to travel faster over the peak of the baffle and then speed down the ramp of the baffle towards the chamber area.  This creates more brightness and power to the sound.

In this case, the concave low baffle floor would seem to have the opposite effect by slowing down the air and creating more darkness and warmth and less power perhaps.  I’m sure those reading this with more scientific knowledge can add more details to my layman’s description of saxophone sound production and acoustics………

In general,  I have never been a fan of square chambers.  I know this will sound rudimentary but I have always been of the opinion that round chambers produced a round sound.   Square chambers produced a square and boxed in sound.  Scooped sidewall produce a richer and rounder, more 3 dimensional sound while straight side walls produce a more one dimensional focused and pure sound.  Even as I type this, I think it sounds pretty simplistic but I have experienced these characteristics more times with these variables than I can mention so I tend to think this way now.

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

The hardest reed I had on hand to try these mouthpieces was a BSS (Boston Sax Shop) Silver Label 3 1/2 tenor saxophone reed.  I chose the Silver Label BSS reeds on purpose just to liven up the sound and perhaps give the tone a little more brightness and edge.  Although the BSS 3 1/2 reed felt a bit soft on the Selmer S80 C* tenor mouthpiece, it felt very comfortable on the Selmer S80 E and F tip openings.

My first impressions of the Selmer S80 C* upon playing it was that it was way too small of a tip for me.  This is of no surprise as I usually play tenor mouthpieces that have a tip opening of .100-.115 on average and the Selmer S80 C* has a tip of .075 which is even smaller than the .080 tip opening I prefer on an alto saxophone mouthpiece.

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

The Selmer S80 C* had a warm tone that seemed to lack the higher partials in the tone that I am used to in my tenor saxophone tone.  Players are always seeking out “warm” and “dark” mouthpieces and the Selmer S80 definitely fits in that category in my opinion.

The smaller tip opening really made it easy to whisper the notes and lines at a ppp dynamic level very easily.  On the other side of the volume spectrum, I had a hard time pushing the Selmer S80 C* to a louder volume like I am used to.  It seemed like it would get to about 5 or 5* on the 1-10 tenor saxophone volume scale and kind of hit a wall for me in regard to volume.

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

Another characteristic I noticed when trying to push the mouthpiece louder was that unlike many tenor saxophone mouthpieces that get brighter the more you push the volume, the Selmer S80 C* just seemed to get more of an increase in the mid-range of the EQ as opposed to the treble side of the EQ.   I wasn’t really a big fan of this mid-range boost in tone personally.

The Selmer S80 C* tenor sax mouthpiece really felt at home at softer volumes for me.  When pushed, it would become more heavy sounding and at times had an edgy and nasally midrange quality to the tone.

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

The Selmer S80 E tenor saxophone mouthpiece had a bit more “oomph” and focus to it than the S80 C* mouthpiece.  I could get more volume out of the E tip opening but the volume was still less than what I am used to from a tenor saxophone mouthpiece.  Maybe around a 6 or 6 1/2 on the tenor mouthpiece volume scale from 1-10.

One characteristic I noticed on all three mouthpieces was that the altissimo range was hard to play with volume.  I seemed to get the notes in that range easily when I backed off of the volume but if I tried to really push the volume on the high notes they would tend to break and I would lose them.   If you seem to notice that the high notes seem softer in volume than I usually play, that is why.

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

The Selmer S80 F tenor saxophone mouthpiece had about the same volume available as the S80 E mouthpiece. I found the tone to be richer and more spread in tone than the E tip opening S80 mouthpiece. It seemed a little closer to an Otto Link type of tone but the tone still seemed boxed in and locked in if you will.  Like the notes were more resistant to bending and manipulation by me.  This might very well be because of the shorter facing curve.   If you think about it, a shorter facing curve will be harder to bend and manipulate the reed where a longer facing curve will give you more of a gradual bend so that you can bend the reed easier and manipulate the tone.

Even though I felt like I could put more air through the F tip opening, I still felt like it was around that 6 1/2  volume level and I couldn’t push it past that point very easily.

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

The intonation on all three S80 mouthpieces was excellent and all three mouthpieces had to be placed pretty far on the neck cork to be in tune.  I’ve heard that these mouthpieces are great for classical music because they have excellent intonation.

The low notes were good but again, they weren’t exactly what I hear in my head when imagining tenor saxophone low notes.  What I mean by this is that I like more of a round sound from the low notes whether I am playing straight or sub-toning.  The Selmer S80 mouthpieces played the low notes fine but again, this analogy probably stinks, but the low notes sounded boxy to me.  Like the low notes are very defined and prepackaged within set borders.

An Otto Link round chamber type of mouthpiece seems to have more of a round tone in the low notes and if you push the volume the round circle of rich tone seems to expand outward to fill the room.  The square chamber of the Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpiece seems to get more concentrated and mid-range heavy when you push it louder but in my mind the tone doesn’t seem to escape the square borders of the sound.  (Feel free to add you own unique descriptions of what you hear and feel in the comments below because I’m not sure I am conveying my thoughts adequately……)

The shorter facing curve definitely seemed to make the low notes a little bit harder to jump to without honking a bit more than I am used to.  I noticed this quite a bit on the second line of Donna Lee where the line jumps down from a low F to a low B.

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

On the sound clips below, I try to give a good range and variety of saxophone sounds and textures so that you can hear the Selmer S80 C*, E and F tenor saxophone mouthpieces perform in different styles.  There are six sound clips, two for each tip opening.

For each of the three Selmer S80 mouthpieces, I play one long sound clip which is my usual mix of varied lines, melodies and ideas I usually play when reviewing mouthpieces.  There is no reverb or effects on each of these sound clips.

On the second shorter sound clip for each mouthpiece, I attempt to play some altissimo and bluesy type lines a bit louder and more aggressively.  I added reverb to these examples so you can hear how the Selmer S80 might sound with reverb or in a room with a natural reverb in it.

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

So, in my opinion, can you play jazz on the Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpiece?  Sure, you can do whatever you want, but I would say for me, “No way!”

First of all, the Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpiece is a tenor sax mouthpiece suited more for the classical genre.  The timbre of the tone is so dark that I think I would have a really hard time cutting through the volume of a band when soloing.   Even when pushed to full volume, that increased mid-range boost of EQ in the tone would just get swallowed up in a live performance with electric instruments in my opinion.   Secondly, playing these three mouthpieces, the Selmer S80 mouthpieces don’t have the powerful dynamic range that I am personally looking for in a tenor saxophone mouthpiece when playing jazz.  Thirdly, the altissimo range doesn’t come close to providing the wailing volume I need to cut through the mix on a gig.  Fourthly, I prefer a richer tonal pallet of colors in the sound of the tenor saxophone than I hear in the Selmer S80 mouthpieces.  The E and F tip opening were certainly closer to what I like in a tenor saxophone sound but for me but they still didn’t fully reach the rich sound that I was looking for while playing.

For classical music, many classical tenor saxophone players have played the Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpiece through the years and sounded terrific so in that genre of music it has proven its value and excellence.  This review is more about my impressions in using the S80 for my personal style of jazz and modern saxophone playing.

If you have tried a Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpiece or have any thoughts, comments or questions on this review,  I would love to hear what you think in the comments below.  Thanks,   Steve

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece-Boston Sax Shop Silver Label 3 1/2 Reed-No Effects Added

Selmer S80 C* Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece-Boston Sax Shop Silver Label 3 1/2 Reed-Altissimo Reverb Added

Selmer S80 E Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

Selmer S80 E Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece-Boston Sax Shop Silver Label 3 1/2 Reed-No Effects

Selmer S80 E Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece-Boston Sax Shop Silver Label 3 1/2 Reed-Altissimo Reverb Added 

Selmer S80 F Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece

Selmer S80 F Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece-Boston Sax Shop Silver Label 3 1/2 Reed-No Effects

Selmer S80 F Tenor Saxophone Mouthpiece-Boston Sax Shop Silver Label 3 1/2 Reed-Altissimo Reverb Added 

*Not too long after I posted my opinions on whether the Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpiece could be used to play jazz,  “Tryptykon” on SOTW (Sax on the Web) posted this video of Elijah Easton playing what looks like a Selmer S80 tenor saxophone mouthpiece.  I don’t know what the tip opening is, but he is certainly playing jazz on it!   So it can be done!